YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

Good riddance!

I wonder if the SNP have drawn up plans on where to export Scotland's lost influence in the world to?

International relations in Scotland will come to mean Bonnyrigg negotiating with Dalkeith over bus stops.

Aye, the MOD is waking up and smelling the roses - excellent news and good riddance. Perhaps planting them as near to the Home Counties as possible, will alert folk there to Trident's inherent dangers.

# 4, so you only have influence if you have Nukes?

Try telling the rest of Europe that!

WIth even the MOD preparing for independence, only the most numptiest of unionists cannot see the writing on the wall.

I think that you will find that the much trailed 11.000 shipyard jobs attributed to Trident is a fiction. I suspect that is more than the population of the Helensburgh district and certainly a lot more than those working or dependent upon Trident.

May we hope that we can find useful and productive work for those who were not transferred in with this hellish project and will, presumably, follow it to wherever it is assigned?

I feel sure that wherever is chosen for this will not be as close to a major centre of population as Couport is to the central Belt of Scotland.

Typical comments from the failed politician (AM Squared) and the Jelly Man (#4).

It will be interesting to see the uproar in England when they want to put their Tridents there. I think we'll find that the average Englishman does not want nuclear weapons in his backyard either.

I've always thought if we do become independence, the first thing we should do is ensure that the nukes are going nowhere. having our own nuclear deterent would be fantastic for giving Scotland leverage on the world stage.

I wonder how the good people of Devonport will feel about getting Trident. Better to scrap it altogether than foist it upon them.

#4 KY, please explain to me what influene Scotland has that is dependent upon Trident?

Yes of course there would be "job losses" but they can be offset if there is an atmosphere of confidence that Scotland has enough talent to emulate independent Ireland. If we lack that confidence or talent, then we simply carry on in the UK; it is up to us in a democracy.

Faslane and Coulport used to be beautiful scenic spots and they could be so again. Just watch the job growth in tourism and hospitality, marinas, etc.

Well done chaps. The SNP will soon sort out any problems in the "wake" of this withdrawal. What a relief!!!!!

Lets see if there is an uproar in England over the site chosen, and then we'll see just how equal we really are Mr Blair.

AM2, those that work directly with Trident will most certainly be relocated if they want.

KY do you just make this up?

To all the Labour cronies: we have stopped bending over and saying "Yes sir, how deep would you like to go?".

#4. K.Y.

During the UK's most influential period, the quality of life enjoyed by most Scots was dire. In fact it's only since the UK stopped being a superpower that quality of life in Scotland has improved. Enormously so, but still, clearly not by nearly enough when compared to virtually all the other small European countries.

Global Domination is nothing but a sport for the ruling elite, it has never been something that serves the masses. The US for example maintains its preminent global position by spending about a $1/2 Trillion per year on its military while 10's of millions of its own people go hungry, with shockingly bad education and health services.

Scotland's priorities, as we'll confirm on May 3rd, do not include maintaining the ability to destroy other countries at will. Most Scots would instead prefer to invest, as their Irish cousins and their other neighbours have, in a quality education for their kids and in a decent standard of living for all.

If English people choose instead to continue going without in the vain hope that their expensive toys and grotesque actions overseas will mean that they Matter then that's for them to decide, and decide they should - free from the undue and undemocratic influence of Tony's Scottish cronies.

I think this has been on the cards for a long time and is part of a plan to further consolidate defence facilities and procurement. Devonport is already the subject of a very strange deal between Vospers and BAe systems to acquire it. That JV was essentially forced on the two companies by the MoD.

So it wouldn't surprise me at all that shifting Faslane to Plymouth at some stage is part of that new arrangement. Perhaps an additional sweetener if you like but has been raised now in a calculated leak by Labour to try to damage the SNP. Crude but ultimately transparent.

AM2 ... Up late again I see.. and at your age!

Well did you spot the little snippet in the other Sunday newspaper? Thought not so here is the relevant bit..

"The (Labour) party's lowest point came on Thursday when, at a leaders' debate hosted by the Federation of Small Businesses, Scottish Labour leader Jack McConnell was jeered and laughed by members of the audience.

The First Minister sat stony faced as his views on small business taxation and pensions were met with repeated cries of "nonsense". At the end of the evening, one attendee shouted: "Goodbye Jack, enjoy your retirement."......... "

Remember Royth V Devenport AM? How many Jocks lost their jobs, because we got shaffed by the Tories in 91. And why? Well we're jocks are'nt we! and London will always put the English jobs first before Scottish.

#4 KY..

Who listens to the UK these days? I would suggest it's probably only the USA and even then it's only on a "I hear what you say" basis.

Sad to say the Iraq debacle in particular has done massive damage to UK credibility but in industrial terms the UK has little or no clout left either.

yes take them south it would be done anyway after the election,when it comes to future cuts in the military,Devonport will always be giving preference over Faslane, and now the decsion about the carriers
are on hold till after the election, well is`nt that a surprise!

#10. Guga, Rockall

Spot on Guga .. it'll only be a matter of time before they start protesting south of the border to having their own missiles on their doorstep, along with all the attendent nuclear bits & pieces which come with the subs.

#11. Richardinho .. when the Soviet Union collapsed, some of the republics tried that and seized the bases until either deals where negotiated (involving lots of money) and they either remained in place or were taken back to mother Russia ... might be a good idea to confiscate the tridents until we get a few £bn back for Scotland ...

#15, #17 & #18
Didn't you know that AM (squared or naked) is northern Irish? His podium is the Union Jackery of all his compatriots who are quaintly and stupidly more British than the British (whoever and whatever the British are in this day and age).

On which subject ... do you nowadays ever see any English persons (apart from BNP, and - oddly - a braindead bunch of Rangers supporters and suchlike) parading around waving that soon to be redundant flag?

#20 ...

There's some strong rumours going around the defence industry that the carrier programme could be scrapped altogether.

#22 Angus. he also tried to get elected in Northern Ireland, and failed!

It is time to scrap trident and to use the money to try to write of as much of the national debt as is possible. A national debt that has been greatly increased by none other than Gordon Brown.

Writing of the debt can mean massive tax cuts for every one of us, as we no longer have to spend a huge percentage of the UK's wealth each year paying off the debt interest.

4. K.Y, Edinburgh
“ International relations in Scotland will come to mean Bonnyrigg negotiating with Dalkeith over bus stops.”
I find it hard to believe that so many Scots have such a low opinion of their country and its potential.
International Relations for Scotland will be as it is for many independent nations sitting at the UN; forging peaceful associations with like-minded countries. No matter how much evidence is put before them about the success and better quality of life most small Western sovereign nations enjoy (good article in Chicago Tribune on that) - up they surface and knock Scotland’s ability to be independent. KY do you honestly, sincerely believe that Scots are unique in the Western World in their inability to be self-governing.
Can you name one Western independent nation today that would wish otherwise?

*23 Dick
I expect that to happen!

Goodbye Trident, Hello Normality. (if this story is true)

Scotland joins the club of NORMAL nations - Germany, Norway, Italy, Spain, Greece, Denmark, Sweden, Finland, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Poland, Austria, Ireland, Netherlands, Portugal, Slovenia, Indonesia, Morocco, Egypt, Argentina, Brazil, and on and on and on.

Those who question an independent nuclear-free Scotland's place in the world should ask themselves - are these countries normal or abnormal?

Please let this be real and not a half-cut vision brought on by over-consumption of Guinness (hic)!

It's been a long time coming.Thanks to Alex Salmon
and the SNP we are nearly there.Lets hope that UK
propaganda does not have the impact it did last time.

I must admit on May 3 I will be biting my nails until
the final count comes in. Scotland forever!

2. AM2, Glasgow
“ The first of many job losses for Scotland if the SNP get their way...”
Here we go again - ‘doom and gloom’. An independent Scotland will have to learn to be enterprising - create new jobs (not built on war and weaponry) - find new markets - (it’s a very big World and very big markets)
As I’ve said before AM - NZ had ‘doom and gloomers when the UK (which used to buy nearly all our primary produce) joined the common Market but NZ found new markets and is doing very well and needs more Scots immigrants.
Every nation may have different problems and various set-backs at times but when it’s up to its own Government and citizens to sort out their own affairs there is a much more enthusiasm to do so.
As I asked KY - do you honestly, sincerely AM believe that Scots are unique in the Western World in their inability to be self-governing and can you name one Western independent nation today that would wish otherwise?
If there is one failing among many Scots it is their pessimism and tendency to be very bluntly sarcastic to those that they disagree with. These traits however may be the signs of an unrecognised ‘inferiority complex’ that seems to disappear when they emigrate. Scots make great migrant but I’m sure they’d make greater citizens in their own sovereign land and contribute greatly at World forums.

Good take your f**king missles and b*gger off!

About time too, this all points to the fact Labour are totally and utterly sh*ting themselves.

Scotland is great again or soon will be!

Hang on a minute. Yes, there are bound to be protests from the anti-nuclear lobby about Trident no matter what. However some of the locals in Devonport might actually welcome the development as it will guarantee the base for quite some time to come and the Royal navy is facing cut-backs. Also, please take into account the numerous US bases in southern England (like the one near Oxford). They are also targets in any war and there are nuclear missiles stored there. It's not just a Scottish question even though the SNP wants it that way. Once the Faslane base closes things will not look good for the local economy.

#31. I know the UK Heath Government treated NZ and Australia in a terrible way when it joined the then Common Market. That was shameful. However, I don't agree that NZ is doing well. The buying power of its currency is now mainly based on a thing called the 'carry trade' where hedge funds and banks borrow money in currencies with low borrowing rates (Yen) and convert it and put it on deposit in currencies with high interest rates like the NZ$ and pocket the difference (if they hedge the currency movements correctly). I went to NZ about 5 years ago and the locals were earning an awful lot less than those in the UK and this was made even worse by the fact that the currency was weak. One of the common complaints I used to hear from Australians was that Australia was a great place but unless you move out you become trapped financially. You're okay when you are there (good health and social security) but in international terms you are not so wealthy. Things have now changed for the better though with the Chinese commodity boom which helps the A$ and the mineral based economy.

What wonderful news! Looks like New Labour see the writing is on the wall! Get all those excellent, talented experts at Faslane deployed to the derth of technical people required in the North Sea. Better paid and no radio activity in their bodies! What a start to reinvigorating technology in Scotland! More negativity from AM/AM2 @ #2. Boy, does this guy hate the prospect of a successful Scotland!

Oh yes, and then there's the argument that Scotland will be defenceless against any major threat. Not a big concern at the moment but no one can predict the future. I suppose the SNP will then want to ponce of the English.

How's about storing their wee nukes in the millenium dome. At least then it will be of some use.

Great news. Let's hope it happens.

Mind you, I'd not wish the folly of Trident on my worst enemy, if you catch my drift.

In my youth I recall all the clamour from Westminster politicians to arm Britain to the teeth [that is, spend vast amounts of tax payer's money] to oppose the Soviet Union's warlike ambitions.

Not one pointed out that Finland, a country living next door to mighty Russia, had no problem whatsoever living without its own WMD.

LA

34. Royster
“However, I don't agree that NZ is doing well.” Nor does the opposition who just can’t seem to win an election despite changing their leader all the time. The electorate seem quite happy as do most of the Scots immigrants.
Royster you and I differ in what constitutes doing well. For you its high wages necessary because of the cost of living - for me it’s having a ‘nice life’.
You say, “One of the common complaints I used to hear from Australians was that Australia was a great place but unless you move out you become trapped financially.” How many Aussies and Kiwis said this to you?
Let’s wager I’ll bet that of the many Scots who come to NZ (or Oz) more would prefer to remain here (perhaps not all but I don’t know any who have returned to Scotland) than New Zealanders who intend remaining after completing their OE (Overseas Experience) in Scotland..
There’s also likely more young New Zealanders visit the UK than young Brits visit OZ or NZ - so we can’t be that ‘broke’. “ trapped financially” who are you talking about? international financiers? or ordinary ‘hard-working Kiwis’? (our MPs like the ‘hard working families too) the only main ‘disadvantage is if a Kiwi wanted to buy a house in Scotland. Then it’s not only the price but what you actually get. Most homes in NZ (until they recently started building flats in Auckland and Wellington) would consist of a stand alone house on 1/4 acre (I have 1/3 of an acre) section with a front and back garden with fruit trees and veggie plots. To sell up and move to Scotland one could only buy a tenement flat in a worse area. So in that one respect on is trapped because the average person’s living conditions are better. Also state pensions and benefits are better and more so when we compare the much higher cost of living in the UK.

34. Royster part the two
I know wages are generally higher in the UK but all my information (family and friends) says it is the higher costs make living tougher except for temporary workers who save and return to NZ to buy a life-style block of land and home (few Heeland coos some sheep and llamas).
Every British person I know here (lots) say living in the UK is great if one has lots of dough. It would be nice to visit the continent more easily but then most of my friends and family seem to tear over there quite regularly (especially the young one who enjoy an almost permanent summer).
Royster the Economists Quality of Life rankings have been posted on these forums because they are more relevant to the average citizen then GDP or having a ‘big stick’ in the World. They do give an indication and comparison of the general standard of living in different countries: Sorry but here they are AGAIN:
Ireland, Switzerland, Norway, Luxembourg, Sweden, Australia, Iceland, Italy, Denmark, Spain, Singapore, Finland, United States, Canada, New Zealand, Netherlands……….
(UK way back at 29th - of course no individual figure or ranking for Scotland which would be even further back what about 40th?) I am sure you will; find fault with them as you can for any evidence that life in small independent nations may not be perfect but may well be better than in the UK and at least not all these countries have suffered the calamities that you Unionists predict for an independent Scotland.

36. Royster
Your not a fan of 'collective security'then?

Take your weapons of mass destruction and put them on the Thames if you think they are so important to you!!

The Scotsman article says above "The revelation was last night seized upon by the SNP as a massive endorsement of their controversial anti-nuclear stance"

It is, but what was ever "controversial" about it? Do you read your own polls - 85% plus are against Trident2. The majority of Scottish MPs are (and the the SNP only had about 7 last time I checked). The "controversial" policy is that of the Scottish Labour Party - a policy so controversial that it has never been debated at any Scottish Labour Party conference -I wonder why? A policy the MOD are fast concluding is politiacally unimplementable.

And Trident at Plymouth? We shall see. Me thinks the good people of England will waken up that their Empire is well and truly gone when Scotland walks away. with Wales and N Ireland waiting in the wings. And without any lingering delusions of imperial grandure - "great power" status - they will surely see Trident is not just dangerous and immoral, but a misuse of scare defence resources by a medium sized and essentially peacable European nation?
www.youscotland.com

Good take all the english tools of war with them, whil;e they are at it take the barclay brothers too.

11000 shipyard jobs? Those must be the ones in Devonport where the subs are maintained. Last time I checked that was a long way from the Scottish border.

Look at the list of some of the countries that are nuclear free -
Germany, Italy, Greece, Denmark, Spain, Sweden, Finland, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Poland, Austria, Ireland, Netherlands, Portugal, Norway etc now compare them to some of the countries that presently have nuclear weapons -
USA, Pakistan, India, Israel, North Korea, China and possibly soon to be Iran. Now ask yourself which group of nations you would rather belong to. Come on Scotland stand on your own two feet, a nation like yourselves could do it without any problems whatsoever. Grab the chance while you have it, we would dearly love to have the same opportunity down here.

#13. Abel Magwitch.
"Yes of course there would be "job losses" but they can be offset if there is an atmosphere of confidence that Scotland has enough talent to emulate independent Ireland."

Answer: Abel, Scotland has far more talent than to ever want to emulate Ireland. "Independent" Ireland has been dependent on Irish-Americans sending back money to dear old Ireland since they swarmed into America in the 1840's during the Potato Famine.

The question at hand is whether or not the rest of Great Britain can depend on an Independent Scotland to remain an ally or to emulate a "neutral" Ireland during WW II. This is a grave threat and should be a concern to all of Scotland.

Sir Winston Churchill describes in a letter to staff in 1939:

"First Sea Lord and other. 5.IX.39.

"A special report should be drawn up by the heads of departments concerned...upon the questions arising from the so-called neutrality of the so-called Eire. Various considerations arise:
(1) What does Intelligence say about possible succoring of U-boats by Irish malcontents in West of Ireland inlets? If they throw bombs in London,(5) why should they not supply fuel to U-boats? Extreme vigilance should be practiced.
"Secondly, a study is required of the additon to the radius of our destroyers through not having the use of Berehaven or other South Irish anti-submarine bases; showing also the advantage to be gained by our having these facilities.
"The Board must realise that we may not be able to obtain satisfaction, as the question of Irish neutrality raises political issues which have not yet been faced, and which the First Lord [Winston Churchill] is not certain he can solve. But the full case must be made for consideration.
"(5) This referred to a criminal act unconnected with the war." (pp. 428-429, "The Gathering Storm," Winston S. Churchill, Houg

Hang on a minute. One of those subs belongs to Scotland, so if the English MOD wants it they can buy it off us, or else we'll sell it to the highest bidder. Maybe Iran is looking for a 2nd hand sub.

Recognise the sarcasm.

Seriously, though, a portion of these assets belongs to Scotland and we would entitled to some compensation if England wishes to retain all of them.

I've always suspected that england will attempt an 'asset grab' on the day Scotland becomes independent.

rubbish arguments against independence no.45667.

'because England might lose the second world war..'

#50 Richardinho
Quuote: "rubbish arguments against independence no.45667.
'because England might lose the second world war...'

Answer: valid arguments against independence and false "neutrality" states.

'because Scotland might lose the third world war...'

Why do we want weapons of mass destruction anyway?

We preach to Iran and Korea not to have them, why shouldn't they if we have them?

So why not just get rid off them? from Scotland, England, N Ireland, Wales?

Why does Britain always have to act like its the 18th and 19th century? When they ruled the earth. Its different nowadays, they are no longer A colonial empire. We are a small country and we would get wiped of the map fairly quickly if it ever came to Nuclear meltdown. So why not disarm seems sensible to me, if we aren't a threat to other countries they aren't a threat to us.

Yes jobs will go at faselane. Its bad for the community but that can be easily redeveloped for civillian use. It could be a Ferry terminal or whatever, they could redevelop the whole area and make lots of new jobs. So theres no real problem there, Nuclear Missles and a threat to humanity vs a few thousand jobs? I know which one is the safer option. It might hurt now but in 50 - 100 - 1000 years whatever they might be thanking us.

I like the Idea of storing them in the dome in London.

anyway its a problem if England have nukes if Scotlands idependant.

Because if England still plan on being one of the big boys with there big toys, they may be attacked and we'd be affected with the Nuclear Fallout.

So disarm you power crazy baffoons, let America, Russia and China blow each other up who gives a damn.

And so the asset-stripping of Scotland by the English government begins...

#53. Skirvy, Auld Reek.

Quote: "So why not disarm seems sensible to me, if we aren't a threat to other countries they aren't a threat to us."

Answer: Name 1 country on the face of the earth that was defenceless and was not taken over by their stronger neighbor.

Being defenceless invites agression!

How can defensive nuclear weapons be WMD for their owners? The idea is to be able to use nuclear weapons as a defense and as a mass destruction of an aggressor.

Oh what a wonderful morning oh what a wonderful day.

The snp are already starting to deliver.

I bet the sos sales are better this week, with something interesting and positive, than with last weeks midwinter nonsense. I note incidently that his comments against labour this week are somewhat submerged from view.

Just give peace a chance.

#55.

You're absolutely right. Just as Iraq was defenseless and was subsequently destroyed by the USA/UK, so might Scotland or, dare I say, Iran be unless they have the capability to defend themselves against opportunistic aggressors.

This is precisely why Iran must arm itself at the earliest opportunity and why it might be a good idea for Scotland to hang on to its share of the trident missiles (the MOD can't take all of them as some were partly paid for with Scottish money). We have all seen what becomes of defenseless nations, so lets learn the lessons and keep a few of those bad boys around. Maybe we can even sell a few to Iran.

#54. Sinnerman

"And so the asset-stripping of Scotland by the English government begins..."

Answer: I have a feeling that the assets of Great Britain would not be viewed as the assets of Independent Scotland. In fact, I. Scotland would probably have to compensate the rest of Great Britain for infrastructure built in Scotland by tax money from all of GB.

The way it worked in 1861 when the Confederate States of America seceded from the United States was that the CSA attempted to pay for military installations, ports, and federal facilities that had been built since 1776 when Independence was declared. The Radical Republicans and Lincoln refused this compensation and invaded the South. Lincoln expressed their problem by saying, "If the southern states leave, we'll just have to close up shop!" That is why they waged the war...beginning by invading Virginia, illegally.

I would assume that this would not happen to Scotland, but the Confederate States never dreamed that their own countrymen would wage a four-year war with 500,000 lives lost and the South brought to its knees.

However, when the survival of a nation is perceived to be in danger, all kinds of unexpected things can happen.

#57. Gareth, Ottawa, Canada.
Quote: "We have all seen what becomes of defenseless nations, so let's learn the lessons and keep a few of those bad boy around. Maybe we can even sell a few to Iran."

Answer: You must be referring to those spiffy men on horses with the red uniforms...the Royal Mounted Police. Do you really plan to sell a few to Iran? I thought slavery had been abolished a while back. Do you have a military or anything of that nature? Your neighbor to the south hasn't heard a peep out of you since we've been in the Iraq War. The Irish Neutrality Fever, I suppose.

By the way, does Canada have a Plan B if the USA decides to only defend her continental borders with a defense shield? Maybe you'd better keep all the Mounties on hand.

55. Virginian
“ Name 1 country on the face of the earth that was defenceless and was not taken over by their stronger neighbor.
Depends when one starts from and they'll always be a 'cop-out’ answer but for starters one could venture Costa Rica? You’d have to define defenceless. But many nations have not been taken over by stronger neighbours or at least may have been but regained their freedom. Of course on has to ‘discount’ aboriginal peoples taken over in imperial times (The Americas- Australia, New Zealand).
Canada not taken over by USA - NZ not taken over by OZ - Iceland regain freedom as have Norway, Denmark, Sweden, Finland and Portugal. Have to go out but it’s a unanswerable question as definitions may be so deferent.

Jobs for whom?

There were jobs in Buchenwald. So What?

Will we be compensated for Trident ruining and stunting the local economy, plus for the envronmental damage?

That Union Flag represents me. I'm not having 'independence' in the EU and I refuse to have any other citizenship other than British. We need to remove ourselves from the EU straight away and then we can rebuild the United Kingdom we all built.

Scottish Independence always seemed like a novel idea that might really work. And I've little doubt that the ingenuity and basic Scottish character could make it work. But after reading the Scottish Numpty Party (SNP) platform, it's clear that independence on the SNP model would toss the thistle into the toilet. Scots deserve much better than the Land of Oz these flying monkeys have planned. You might dislike Labor, but at least find an alternative you'll not be embarrassed to bring home to meet the family.

Those nuclear weapons are only in Scotland because you have sea lochs. They are the perfect site to have a nuclear submarine base and yes if this part of the United Kingdom had a similar geography I wouldn't have any problems in them being sited here.

#2 AM2, Glasgow

How many jobs losses AM? The much trumpeted figure of 11,000? Maybe 7,000? 5,000?

And of those numbers which are high skills? And how many are actually local people?

The truth is Faslane employs a relatively small number of people such as engineers and technicians on Trident.

The bulk of civilian jobs are in security and other services that would hardly be difficult to find alternatives for.

If the base was retained as a base for other naval operations the job losses would not be nearly so great as have been suggested, as many of the current posts would be retained for such.

There are other uses the base could be used for, including marine engineering, but I wont go into 'maybes'.

Read for yourself what the impact would be of getting rid of Trident. The economic price is a lot, lot less than we are told by the Labour party machines and drones who lump ALL of the jobs associated with Faslane into their fantasy figures and, I suspect, ones that are simply plucked out of thin air.

Dont just take my word for it, Google for the following: CANCELLING TRIDENT pdf

#64. Donald Barry Scarfe. Essex.

You are a sensible man and a true patriot. God bless you!

Robbie NZ. I have the highest admiration for Scotland like the vast majority of people in England do and I am sure that they could make a go of independence but the question is is this the right course? California on its own would be a very successful independent state as would Texas and they used to be independent at one time but they wish to stay a part of the United States. Scotland has punched well above its weight in the United Kingdom for very many years and there is no shame in a great country like Scotland contributing to a greater whole - the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

When are the lilly livered liberals going to realise that getting rid of our ability to defend ourselves will only make us weaker and subsequently open to influences that will change our lives for ever.
For once in your lives get off the fence and stand up for something.

#67

Agreed, well put.

I personally would prefer Scotland stayed in the UK, but the UK isn't working very well right now for Scotland and the first thing that needs to be fixed is the Scottish Government. The choice currently facing Scots is between 3 utterly hopeless Unionist parties and 1 rather slick and professional Seperatist one. On May 3rd I'll be voting with the seperatists not because I particularly want independence but because I really want Scotland to have a good quality government. We can always vote No in the Referendum if and when it should come.

It is about time Trident was consigned to the dustbin of history.

WMD will not help any country defeat terrorism, not that Westminister could do that anyway just look at the IRA.

It is about time we stood with the other independant countries in the Commonwealth and told both Westminister and the EU exactly where to go.

We have far more in common with Oz, NZ, Canada and even India than we do with the Europeans.

Les

A few things. I hate to be this way to someone else who is obviously from the U.S. on such a publicly international forum but I have just got to say that I am angered very much by Virginian. Your nationalism is disgusting.

Robbie: What is OZ? I am fairly current with the existence of different countries, but have never heard of this place.

Virginian: I have lived close to Three Mile Island-site of the worst nuclear disaster in U.S. History. My dad worked there as a security guard two or so weeks after the Meltdown which DID have NUCLEAR PARTICLES LEAKED during the 1979 incident. The U.S. gov. has always denied the claims of nuclear contamination in the air, soil and water, but we KNOW that they ARE lying. Nuclear particles have been reported in Scotland near the Faslane facility. Nuclear is a bad option no matter the capacity in which it is found. Any time a community can get the government to remove such an incorrigible juggernaut from its midst, is a moment we as humans truly have won a victory for all man-kind.

It is too difficult for established nuclear powers to stuff the nuclear genie back into the bottle, but a free re-independent Scotland under the SNP could make a fresh start.

It's time.

Can we have our Scottish regiments back please.

I think it's a good idea that the parliament people in England do this.
The timing for announcing the move is ideal, as they (Labour) fee it might sway a few voters as this is an obvious job loss action.
For us in Scotland, particularly those who live near the base it's excellent news. Believe me this is an excellent deep water facility, and will be put to use once the English folks take their toys away.
Remember when the Americans gave up their bases at Dunoon the place struggled to adjust initially, but eventually flourished (also a massive drop in the numbers of STD's).

We are a wee bit smarter than the suits in London take us for .... take you toys away whenever you want, I can only see benefits in the long run.

#16, Gareth, Ottawa, Canada

Quote: "The US for example maintains its preminent (sic) global position by spending about $1/2 Trillion per year on its military while 10's of millions of it own people go hungry, with shockingly bad education and health services."

Answer: You said it...now show your documentation! Anyone can throw out ridiculous figures about how the US is buying guns instead of butter to feed their starving masses. You sound like a vintage Marxist thumping away on the old communist claptrap of "a decent standard of living for all" when you really mean for those who you think deserve it, like yourself.

"Shockingly bad education"....in reference to what other educational systems? Maybe you are referring to all the illegal aliens that cannot speak English and taxpayer money has to go to special classes for them.

"...shockingly bad education and health services."...ditto for above. Taxpayer money goes for the millions of illegal aliens for health care...no one is turned away. What is shocking is that the taxpayers have to provide for illegals.

"Most Scots would instead prefer to invest, as their Irish cousins and their other neighbours have, in a quality education for their kids and in a decent standard of living for all."

Answer: Scullion, I thought this was you. When you bring up "Irish cousins" that is a dead give-away. I will agree that many Scots are thrifty and good stewards of all their resources, but since when have your Irish cousins been known for thrift? You'll have to enlighten me, I don't have any Irish cousins.

the thames would be ideal,i am sure our english freinds will endorse this

#71. Comment is Free, U.S.
Quote: "I hate to be this way to someone who is obviously from the U.S. on such a publicly international forum but I have just got to say that I am angered very much by Virginian. Your nationalism is disgusting."

Answer: OK, Wally, you can come out now. You are the only one on the Scotsman boards that would say, "The U.S. gov. has always denied the claims of nuclear contamination...but we KNOW that they ARE lying."

Your anti-nationalism is showing, and showing, and showing....

# 40 writes "I know wages are generally higher in the UK but all my information (family and friends) says it is the higher costs make living tougher.

I'm pretty sure what is being referred to is the massive amount of increased cars on the roads (Nary a 'banger' in sight) - the two car families, the prolferation of 4x4's The cellphones by the thousands used by kids on the route to school with
iPod plugged in. The greatly increased use of pc's in the home added to by the wireless laptop, not to mention tv and dvd player in the kiddies bedroom. Oh! and did I mention the foreign holidays . sometimes more than one and including the recently announced large increase of cruise bookings
Aye life sure is hard for us UK residents

Well, it has been amusing, but I am going to bed. I won't be able to post on Sunday because I am a Sabbatarian.

Have a good night.

#4KY
You shouldn't mock the likes of Norway, Denmark etc. They don't have nasty bombs and they have more respect from the rest of the world and a much better standard of living.
Vote SNP

Moving trident to England wont change a thing. You guys will still be whinging and moaning because the missiles are on the same island as you. No doubt some of you will be making the trip south to protest about it. The only difference will be that, as an independent nation, you will have no say in what England does with them.

#53 I agree with your comments re why is it acceptable for us to have WMD while we preach (and often sell) WMD to other nations? That seems to me ethically questionable to me.
As #74 has indicated, the money saved from redeploying/replacing trident could be used to help in many areas affecting the common good.
Thatcher's Government did not listen to the people of Scotland - in her arrogance and lack of compassion, she enforced the poll tax on our nation 1 year before everybody else.
It was the capitulation of the labour Party in Scotland at the time that forced me to resign my Labour Party membership.
When she treid to introduce it in England, it finally drove her out of power because the people simply would not accept it, and protested on the streets.
Similarities of attitude seem to be very real to me at this present time. There has been massive rejection of replacing Trident across all political and social divides in Scotland, largely ignored. The current Labour Party has become a marass of PC policies whether they are morally/etically acceptable or not.
For the record, I have voted labour all my life, but now I find that I simply cannot support this current Government anymore. I am left to ponder if there really is a viable socialist alternative, which really does care about the common good.

We should remember that weapons of mass destruction comprise not only atomic, but also biological and chemical devices. The Scottish Enterprise Party wants rid of Trident, but its policy also proposes that a constitutional ban be imposed on the stationing of any ABC weapons on Scottish soil or in its territorial waters. See the SEP Election Manifesto and and also its Security and Defence Policy on its website: www.scottishenterpriseparty.org

Coming from a publication known for its ability and desire to put a unionist spin on just about everything this was a very welcome headline this morning.

Has the hootsmon finally seen the writing on the wall?

As for the [sadly unnamed] Tory spokesthing:
>>"If anyone is really considering voting for this party, they should ask themselves whether they want to break up the UK, to undermine its fundamental defences and..."

What a load of absolute drivel. Who does it think it is fooling? If I have a computer in one room of the house and move it to another the ability to work with it is neither undermined nor negated. Same with these WMDs; their so-called "effectiveness" [can't think of a better word at the moment] would not be diminished by a move south. Let those that are so enthusistic for their possession be their keepers.

[82] Frhugh: "For the record, I have voted labour all my life, but now I find that I simply cannot support this current Government anymore. I am left to ponder if there really is a viable socialist alternative..."

You're a bit late in waking up.

NL is so far removed from socialism one wonders how they have the gall to attempt to posit themselves that way, and how many of the mass of non-thinkers way over west still blindly swallow that line.

Still, better late than never, eh? Use your vote constructively.

I believe Kate Hudson is the chairwoman of CND and vice-chairman of the Communist University in Britain.

You can see for yourself some of her left-wing rants on www.communist-party.org!

Typical left-wing hypocrisy:

1) Support the Soviet Union with their nuclear weapons.

2) Support Castro's attempt to base nuclear weapons on Cuba.

3) Support Iran's attempts to get nuclear weapons.

4) Support Kim Jong II of North Korea with his WMD's.

So the left-wing SNP have aligned themselves with the Marxists "fifth column" in Scotland then!

Its time.............time to head for OZ!

I beg and implore all jocks not to come here to NZ .I came 12,000 miles to get away from jocks, poms ,taffs and paddies with their myriad of hang ups and prejudice.
So please will you all stay at home.Ta very much.
Wor Dave

#75. Alright then, here's some back up:

According the US Government's Census Bureau:

- 37 Million Americans officially live in poverty
- 46 Million Americans have no health coverage

And according to the US Government's Department for Agriculture:

- 35.1 Million Americans are officially "Food Insecure" meaning they're going hungry, over 12 million of those are children.

With regards education - well if you can't afford to eat I doubt you'll be checking into Harvard anytime soon.

Now I'm not saying that other countries are perfect, nor am I saying that the US is an ogre. What I am saying though is that the Government's of power-states tend to make decisions which don't help their people because their people are not their priority. Instead Power and the extension of it are their priority.

The UK behaved like that for centuries and its pretty clear the US is doing it today. As a result poeple in Luxembourg today have a much higher quality of life than Brits do, because Brit governments were focussed on other things - like buying nukes and trying to conquer the middle east.

Quality of life in Scotland really started to improve for the majority only after the UK stopped being a superpower. You know $500billion would buy a whole lot of good food, good schools, good infastructure, good healthcare and great opportunities for Americans.....on the other hand it might also buy a rather embaressing ass-whooping in some far flung land.

http://www.census.gov/Press-Release/www/releases/archives...

http://www.ers.usda.gov/Briefing/FoodSecurity/

Well if that isn't a sign that officialdom is taking Independence seriously I don't know what is. The SNP policies are taking place even before they are elected, excellent.

No4: KY what influence in the world would this be? AS I see it Scotland has no influence in the world other than by example and through the brilliance of individual Scots, e.g. teams of Glasgow University nuclear physicists working at CERN in Switzerland leading the field in discovering the origins of the Universe, in particular the 'God Factor' which gave the Universe life. They are attempting to prove the Higgs Boson theory of the origins of the universe, Higgs being an Edinburgh University nuclear physicist from the 60s.

The whole idea of independence is for Scotland to join the world community and extend its influence beyond that of brilliant individuals and first class universities. (And there are those who still say Scotland is incapable of governing itself….unbelievable). Let’s just do it on May 3rd!!!

87. dave A, new zealand / Tosser

"The base is almost certain to become the new home of the submarines and missiles that form the UK's nuclear deterrent should Scotland become independent"

But the UK will cease to exist - so what will England, Wales and Northern Ireland call themselves? Why do we want separation from our friends in Northern Ireland, Wales and England anyway?

So will all of the Scottish personnel continue to serve in the E,W&NI military. So Scotland will loose democratic control of our own military - how is that progress?

We'll need a few soldiers I suppose in case we ever need to do any peacekeeping in Malawi - I suppose the Atholl Highlanders would do.

We could change our National Anthem from "Scotland the Brave" to "Scotland the Irrelevant". And instead of "Nemo me impune lacessit" we could have "Na w’re Impotent forget it"

So out would go our drive to spread freedom in the world (we're ok Jack - sort out your own problems) and in would come tartan day - we could apply to become a state of USA and have about the same impact as South Carolina. When the Chinese start flooding the world with cheap Whisky I'm sure England (our old mates by then) will use their influence in the UN to help us.

The nationalist are making most noise but many many people in Scotland are very very worried about an unwanted separation. It would cause a lot of division and heartache.

Morning Folks,
My my been busy last night!
I used to live in Rosneath and my children still live there. Faslane is a blight on that beautiful landscape and yes it does bring money into the area but that normally arrives in the form of drunken sailors on a friday night, staggering round helensburgh.
The west coast will have no problems recovering from Faslane dissapearing.
I will also be relieved to know that we are not a country that harbours WMD's.
Now as they are moving south (I hope) we need to encourage England to give up this folly, as their nearest neighbour, we dont want Trident living next door either.
We still live in a beautiful world... lets try and keep it that way. :)

Question!
are the M.O.D arranging to take away the remains of the redundant nuclear fleet for Rosyth as well.
Or are they going to bring up to Rosyth the ones at Devenport and we get the jobs at Rosyth, breaking them up.

Bye bye Trident.............mind and tidy up afore ye go.

87. dave A
Good one Dave

It's a good deal we bring the weaponry to England. We also get full independence from Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. You get to keep Brown and Browne and the rest of the rubbish you have sent to Westminster.

That is if the SNP ever decide to have a referendum

Brilliant news, and hopefully Alex will ensure they take their rotting hulks of decommissioned NUCLEAR submarines from Rosyth too.

Clyde "Ex-Submarine" Base will probably be the main base of the Scottish Defence Forces' conventional warships - Fishery Protection vessels and those that protect an independent Scotland's commercial interests within the EEZ.

I'm looking forward to serving my country.

#81 Eddy "you guys will still be whinging and moaning that they're on the same island as you..."
Well, maybe when they're moved to England, then our English cousins will demand that they get rid of them, as 85% of Scots do.

This is great news: I didn't intend to vote SNP, but if that is the one way to get rid of Trident, which seems to be what the Ministry of Defense and the Tories are saying (and Labour "refusing to comment" comes to the same thing), then so be it; wee Alex, you've just gained one more vote!

The headlines in today's Sunday Herald speak of "Labour's own goal" and refers to a different subject. However the Labour inspired leak reported in the SoS regarding Trident is truly a spectacular overhead kick of an "own goal".
Instead of spreading fear and despondancy regarding the potential consequences of an SNP election victory and ensuing job losses at the Trident base, the news is greeted with elation throughout the country, and will act as a further boost to the SNP's fortunes.
The message is very clear(lol). Vote for Alex Salmond as First Minister and chase Trident.